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February 2012 > Scripture: Beware of Bald Prophets
The Word On Fire Blog

Scripture: Beware of Bald Prophets



Have you ever been asked to cite your favorite bible verse? Rozann Carter has. But, in throwing out the conversation stopper that is 2 Kings 2:23-25, she has discovered that there is more to that passage than meets the eye... or descends from the woods. Rozann reminds us not to miss the forest for the she-bears.

A reading from the Second Book of Kings.
 
“From there, Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. ‘Go up, baldhead,’ they shouted, ‘go up, baldhead!’ The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the children to pieces. From there, he went to Mount Carmel, and thence he returned to Samaria.”
 
The Word of the Lord.


 
Wait a minute.

 
The Word of the Lord? Our Lord? How is this series of verses—featuring the comical insult “baldhead,” a holy prophet cursing small children for a seemingly innocuous affront to his physical appearance, a pack of rabid she-bears, and a final return to casual, whistling normalcy strolling through the surrounding lands of Mount Carmel— how is this a valid passage in the written account of salvation history? How did it get past centuries of scribes and canon-compilers? What could God possibly have been attempting to convey in this pericope, hidden within the otherwise coherent text of Second Kings? Ah, but there it is. 2 Kings 2: 23-25— a legitimate verse in sacred canon, compiled and propagated under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
This is one of several biblical passages that are not readily resourced when seeking handy proof texts for God’s goodness. These verses maintain an air of mystery, inciting interpretation and re-interpretation from biblical scholars and casual readers, often in an attempt to make them palatable to our sensibilities regarding the Divine. How could this divine action fit into what we know about God?
 
To be sure, scripture often (in fact, almost always) contains far more than meets the eye. Father Barron has offered numerous commentaries on the fact that the texts of the Bible are not always meant to be received within a fundamentalist/literalist perspective. The books and passages are part of a library of literary genres and should be unpacked as such. Above all, they must be approached not with a juvenile demand to be fed with certitude and immediate edification, but with the humble willingness to seek out the meaning at the time when the ink was wet and to glean applicable insights from the original context. 
 
The study and exegesis of Scripture, like any worthwhile intellectual pursuit, calls for seriousness and discipline, but it is not without reward. Biblical scholarship and conscientious exegesis yields applicable truths for the spiritual life in every age. Themes related to Elisha’s role as prophet, to the Lord’s commissioning of this prophet to carry his message to an idolatrous land, to the messenger’s baldness, to the stark consequences of mocking the Divine and placing oneself outside of his protection all can be identified, interpreted and re-applied to the next generation of biblical readers. But the question remains: despite symbolic, analogical explanations, why would God convey a series of truths regarding fidelity by means of she-bears tearing ornery young boys to pieces?
 
We fumble over various attempts at dismissing, leveling, smoothing over the prickly parts and de-mystifying the mysterious, employing our analogical skills in order to squeeze the message into the narrow framework of our certain understanding. We start with what we grasp and work backward, and while this is the default mode for scholarship, to approach the Bible with the goal of moving toward an ever-greater number of quantifiable bits of understanding, we lose the great possibility of gaining vision, of encountering the Great Mystery that cannot be grasped or known. By moving in this way, we forfeit the beauty and transformative power of being a humble receptacle for the mystery of divinity.
 
Flannery O’Connor, in her short essay entitled “The Fiction Writer & His Country,” speaks about the task of the fiction writer, especially the Christian fiction writer, in presenting a concept that will encompass the reader in transformative mystery:
 
“The novelist with Christian concerns will find in modern life distortions which are repugnant to him, and his problem will be to make these appear as distortions to an audience which is used to seeing them as natural; and he may well be forced to take ever more violent means to get his vision across to this hostile audience. When you can assume that your audience holds the same beliefs you do, you can relax a little and use normal means of talking to it; when you have to assume that it does not, then you have to make your vision apparent by shock—to the hard of hearing you shout, and for the almost-blind you draw large and startling figures.”

2 Kings 2:23-25 could well be the prototype of O’Conner’s discourse on method, a  prototype that speaks across time to an audience incapable of recognizing “repugnant distortions” of life-as-intended, whose mocking children and angry she-bears stand as “large and startling figures,” shocking the reader into an understanding of the importance of fidelity and right relationship vis-à-vis the mysterious Lord who reveals himself as he chooses.
 
Flannery O’Connor intuits correctly that the revelation of the scriptures cannot be reduced to a set of graspable principles. That reduction produces “a soggy, formless, and sentimental literature, one that will provide a sense of spiritual purpose for those who connect the spirit with romanticism and a sense of joy for those who confuse virtue with satisfaction.”
 
If Divinity’s collision with humanity is anything, it is certainly not romanticism and mere satisfaction. Our spiritual purpose is never properly understood separate from our humble submission to the unknowable God—on His terms. If we need she-bears to reveal this peculiarity, let them be called out of the woods.

Rozann Carter is the Creative Director at Word on Fire Catholic Ministries. (If there are "large and startling figures" and/or misplaced italics on this webpage, it is her doing. Don't judge, she is channeling Flannery.)

Posted: 2/9/2012 10:21:16 AM by Word On Fire | with 25 comments
Filed under: 2Kings2:23-25, FlanneryO'Connor, mystery, RozannCarter, Scripture


Trackback URL: http://www.wordonfire.org/trackback/d3e470e7-a4df-4856-8795-8364de55d077/Scripture--Beware-of-Bald-Prophets.aspx

Comments
Nancy Whalen
This is awesome. I wish I had the brains to commit it to memory. I have printed it and will always answer 2Kings 2: 23-25 when asked what is my favorite bible verse. Thanks for the Flannery O'Connor as well. Half my school of community from CL are fans. I never "got" her. Now I will look anew. I will also be looking for new favorite bible verses.
2/9/2012 11:12:45 AM
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Carla Lies
I'm confused....todays scripture is from the First book of Kings 11:4-13. It talks about the Wisdom of Solomon, and despite his Wisdom, in his older years he is led astray by his wives, who turned his heart toward strange gods. In essence, the reading states that despite all the wisdom God had given Solomon in his life, there is still something greater than his wisdom....It is his love for the one and only God, and not the other false Gods. God punishes Solomon for allowing himself to be led astray by depriving Solomon's son the Kingdom. The message: don't take for granted the wisdom God gives you, only to lose your focus on your love for the one true God in the end. Again, God comes first, and we are reminded of this in the first book of Solomon.
2/9/2012 12:03:22 PM
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Peggy
Wonderful piece, thank you. My favourite phrase is "those who confuse virtue with satisfaction.” As I see the distortion now, hopefully God can hold the bears!
2/9/2012 2:36:36 PM
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Suzie
Well done, Rozann. I certainly see why you could tie 2Kings2:23-25 with Flannery O'Connor's writing style. I know it's not supposed to be funny, but I couldn't help chuckling. There have been many passages of scripture that have confounded me over the years, but I turned it over to the Lord. When he wanted me to understand, he gave me understanding. I now rejoice when I read something in the scriptures that I don't understand. I trust that the Lord will reveal it to me "on the way."
2/9/2012 4:05:35 PM
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Stephen
I understand the intention behind this piece, but I disagree with the method. There is a general tendancy among Catholics today to disregard the Old Testament as fanciful fiction from Moses, to Job, to Jonah and now this section. There is a habit to treat Jesus's stories as completely literal while dismissing many of the OT miracles as myths. The best example I can come up with off the top of my head is Jonah. Many disregard the book as myth, including Fr. Barron in some of his videos, because the prophet was within a great fish for 3 days which is impossible crazy talk, but then turn around and say that Jesus was God and walked on water, brought the dead back to life, healed people by touching them etc. which are all as equally crazy as Jonah's fish ride. On top of that Jesus said "as Jonah spent 3 days in the belly of the fish" not "as Jonah figuratively" nor "suposedly" nor "as the story of Jonah goes.." My point is that by trying to sugar-coat and remove less desireable texts within the Bible by categorizing them as fiction, we form more contradiction and less convincing areguments. I think we should reaffirm many Old Testament miracles such as this as historical miracles that did indeed happen. After all if we expect people to believe that God turns bread into Himself every mass, we can't try to rationalize less likable truths away as myth and legend. Overall I am disappointed in this article and hope a change is scholarship within the Church will occur sometime soon.
2/9/2012 4:13:02 PM
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Andre
"There is a habit to treat Jesus's stories as completely literal while dismissing many of the OT miracles as myths."

Perhaps with good reason: our written accounts of Jesus ministry began to be recorded within a few decades of his death and resurrection, at a time when memories of the events were still relevantly fresh, and some eyewitnesses were still alive.

On the other hand, many biblical scholars now believe that much of the OT was first written down centuries after many of the alleged events, and for many of the key events (the Israeli conquest of Canaan, for example) the archaeological evidence is either negligible, non-existent, or in some cases, completely contrary to the OT accounts.

Simply put, we have much better evidence (textual, historical, archaeological)for the NT than for the OT.
2/9/2012 10:01:30 PM
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Brendan Bohl
I believe at the time, the jewish "young boys" were anywhere from teens to early twenties, as I understand it, the she bears mauled what we would consider gangsters tormenting and old prophet.
2/9/2012 10:28:05 PM
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JWB
A genuine insight and wonderful use of Flannery. Thanks for writing.
2/10/2012 1:33:37 AM
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Peggy
Stephen,
I didn't understand the essay as a 'mythologizing' of 2 Kings. I understood Carter's parallel with O'Connor as technique to highlight God's design in writing true history, not to imply that 2 Kings was an example of God writing good fiction. I agree with you that 2 Kings is a historical book.

O'Connor's strategy in fiction writing reminds me of Tolkien's 'sub-creation'. But our God is not limited to creating fiction...
2/10/2012 9:51:11 AM
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Stephen
To Andre;
There is no more evidence for Jesus than any OT prophets. The only records which exist are those recorded by their followers and believers. Many modern scholars will argue that the Gospels in fact have the most additions and changes over time, in comparable to the est of the Bible and that some of St. Paul's letters were not even written by him. So if you wish to go down that path, you will have to disregard the NT was well, since there is more evidence for the rule of kings Saul,David and Solomon, as well as the times of Joshua and Judges than for Jesus. There is not a single record of Jesus outside of those who believed in Him and those who were referencing the beliefs of early Christians. There are Babylonian accounts of Jewish captivity and Egyptian accounts of Jews leaving (perhaps the best evidence, since Egyptians never recorded lost battles). From the standpoint as a historian both testaments stand up as equally unlikely based on evidence, so I see disregarding one as myth a dangerous proposal since it opens the way to disregard the other. Not to mention when Jesus spoke on the OT He always spoke to it as fact. He never refereed to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, or the prophets as fiction, so if they were Jesus either knew and lied, meaning he is not good, or didn't know and was therefore not all-knowing.
2/10/2012 2:40:32 PM
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Andre
2Kings; history or mythology?

Why assume that it must be completely either/or?

Isn't it far more likely, or at least more reasonable, to assume that it is some combination of the two?

"But our God is not limited to creating fiction..."

Of course not, but neither is he precluded from doing so either, provided that his intent is not to deceive or hide truth, but rather to more fully and deeply reveal it (the most obvious and non-controversial example of such a approach being the New Testament parables).

One not insignificant benefit of such an interpretative approach is that it would also allow for the most harmonious (and least tortured) reconciliation of the OT texts with the latest archaeological/historical evidence.
2/10/2012 3:16:53 PM
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Andre
Dear Stephen'

I don't know where you are getting your information from, and I am certainly no biblical or historical scholar myself, but I must say that your account completely contradicts everything I have read about the relative historical relabilty of the OT & NT.

"There are ...Egyptian accounts of Jews leaving ."

I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you for some citations to back up such a claim, because everything that I have read claims the exact opposite; that there are no references, and absolutely zero archaeological evidence of the Exodus story from Egyptian sources. As a matter of fact, the very first mention of "Israel" from Egyptian sources (also the very first extra-biblical mention of Israel anywhere) comes from a stele describing the campaign of the Pharaoh Merneptah in Canaan at the end of the 13th century BC. in which he boasts of decimating a people named Israel to the point where Israels "seed is not." (Obviously he was engaging in some exaggerated boasting, but the point, needless to say,is that the emergence of Israel in the land of Canaan could not have occurred, at least according to the OT, until after the Exodus).
2/10/2012 3:51:33 PM
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Andre
"...when Jesus spoke on the OT He always spoke to it as fact. He never refereed to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, or the prophets as fiction..."

True. But he also never explicitly spoke of the characters in his parables as fiction either, and yet it is clear from the context that they were not meant as actual literal historical personages.

It is equally possible that for at least some of the OT characters he spoke in a similar way. He merely used the accepted cultural reference points of his audience as convenient tools with which to convey his teachings.

If I say that a particularly successful entrepreneur has "the Midas touch; everything he touches turns to Gold", my meaning is plain. I would feel no need to annotate my comment by pointing out that King Midas was a mythological person, and probably not a literal historical figure. Failing to do that, am I therefore lying? Of course not.

This possible interpretation of Jesus's meaning in reference to OT characters is even implicitly accepted, at least in some instances, in Church teaching, as in the case of Jonah, where we are allowed by the Magisterium to interpret that story as literal or symbolic (the Church takes no official stand on the question). Yet Jonah is mentioned by Jesus on at least one occasion in the Gospels (sorry, I don't have actual citation in my memory).
2/10/2012 4:13:48 PM
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Stephen
Andre;
Historically speaking the Egyptian invasion of Canaan occurred previous o Joseph's over to Egypt, show that the nation of Israel already existed prior to the Exodus. This website has a great number of sources treat them as you will http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodus.htm Evidence is also in Josephus' "Jewish Antiquities" the 1st century work which compares Jewish history to those of other nations in the region, showing great coherence.

On to the parables, each parable begins with "Jesus told a parable..., Jesus told this story...." etc. This simple introduction shows that it is a story. When Jesus speaks of OT people he does not get such an opening from the Gospel writers. In other word he was speaking literally. Using your logic transubstantiation does not exist because Jesus used parables therefore when He says "This is my body" he is also speaking figuratively.

Stating that one has a Midas touch is a very different thing than saying "They WILL dine with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven" (Mt. 8:11) indicating that these men are real since they are in heaven. Likewise the catechism also holds up the truth that these men were real. Jesus is making a very strong assertion here if they are mere fiction. Likewise Moses and Elijah both appear at the transfiguration, it is impossible for fictional characters to appear in reality, and why would Jesus have Moses there if Moses received no law? Why Elijah if he only performed fictional prophecy and miracles? Without the miracles of God these men have no significance so why should they show themselves? As for Jonah refer to my previous comment I think I explained it significantly enough.

Now tell me sir, is it logical to accept that God turns bread into Himself every mass? Is this not a miracle? There is no evidence for this, but what is recorded by the faithful, evidence on equal caliber with any part of the OT or NT, essentially weak in the eyes of modern historians. No tell me if God can complete such a great miracle everyday through ordinary men, then is it not also equally as likely and do able for him to keep an ordinary man alive in a fish ONCE for 3 days? Or to bring a bunch of ordinary people through a sea ONCE? Or to do many other miracles? If God can do such a great thing now that surely he can do much lesser things throughout history. Just because it happened before you doesn't mean it didn't happen.
2/10/2012 11:54:50 PM
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Andre
"Historically speaking the Egyptian invasion of Canaan occurred previous o Joseph's over (sic) to Egypt, show that the nation of Israel already existed prior to the Exodus." -Stephen

But that is not what the OT claims happened, and it strikes me as a rather odd defense of the historical accuracy of the Hebrew Bible to appeal to extra-biblical arguments that in themselves contradict the Biblical chronology of events. All the more so when such arguments are seemly snatched out of thin air, with no corroborating evidence of any kind, Biblical or otherwise.

If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that the military campaign of Pharaoh Merneptah into Canaan at the end of the 13th century BC, which is commemorated on the stele I referred to above (and which again, is the first documented mention of the Israelites anywhere in Egyptian history), occurred before Joseph's abduction into Egypt (and thus long before the time of Moses). But if the OT accounts are historically accurate, such a time-line is completely implausible.

Consider: We are told in the OT that Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple. We are also told that the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt for 430 years before the Exodus. That's 910 years (and this doesn't even account for the unknown number of years, presumably many, during which first Joseph ,and then later the other Israelites who followed him, lived free and prosperous in Egypt before they were enslaved).

Since the OT tells us (and archaeology confirms) that Solomon's Temple must have been built in the 10th century BC, that means that Joseph must have entered Egypt somewhere around 2000 BC, seven hundred years BEFORE the 13th century reign of Pharaoh Merneptah.

These are the types of historical absurdities that we are forced into if we fail to acknowledge the obvious mythological nature of much of Old Testament "history".

The fact that there are not any such comparable absurdities
(or lessor inconsistencies)that arise from taking a more literal interpretation of the historicity of the events described in the New Testament, is one good reason (but not the only one) why I stand by my previous claim that the "...habit to treat Jesus's stories as completely literal while dismissing many of the OT miracles as myths" is a completely reasonable approach to take, and one which best harmonizes with all of the available lines of evidence (both sacred and secular).
2/11/2012 2:07:19 PM
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Stephen
You are simply assuming their are missing years, which there is no reason to believe when reading the Bible. As for Pharaoh Merneptah, he is never referenced in the Bible so his "conquest" more like raids into Canaan can be placed before or after the Exodus it really doesn't matter, he is not an important figure. I though it was before Joseph, but the math is wrong.

I will also tell you this because it is something that you do not appear to know. When dealing with secular modern history the Bible is always and entirely disregarded as myth, while pagan myths are treated as having truth. So for example when the Bible says there was a flood people will laugh at it, while if the Epic of Gilgamesh says there was a flood historians will look into it. If you compare pagan histories o those of the Jews the Bible is very accurate. Archaeology is not the only form of knowledge.

I suppose you didn't read the link, nor did you address any of my other points which are stronger such as Moses at the transfiguration. Logically speaking fiction and reality CANNOT inter-mesh, so either BOTH Moses and Jesus were real or BOTH Moses and Jesus were fictional. Now you believe Jesus was real, so you must by default also believe that Moses was real unless you disregard the transfiguration as myth. Now if you accept that Moses was real and there, why was he there? If he did not receive God's law he was not special, and would not be worthy of such an event. After all only 3 apostles were allowed to see it.

Also I apologize for my poor spelling last round, since I was trying to explain to my protestant roommate (who is a Biblical literalist) that this is not traditional Catholic belief After all it is things like this that keep many from converting to the Church. From my own experience I left the Catholic Church for a very long time because I went to Catholic gradeschool and highschool, and I constantly hear stuff like this. The whole "God is a happy fuzzy hippy, who loves everyone and isn't mean" wasn't much of an intensive to believe. I was not until I read the Old Testament and God's great deeds of old that I really first felt the fear of God and wanted to follow him. the way I see it is that these sorts of articles that try to appeal to atheistic society keep many people like my younger self and my roommate away from the Church. One must ask does it do more good or evil? The Church has traditionally been more on the literalist side than the mythical, so should we not work to upkeep that tradition?
2/12/2012 12:49:42 PM
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Rozann Carter
Hi Stephen and Andre--

I have enjoyed reading your dialogue about a literal interpretation of the Bible vs. those portions of the bible that speak in figurative language to convey underlying truths. You have provided lots of useful scholarship and enlightening perspectives. I just wanted to quickly clarify, Stephen, that my intent in writing this piece was almost exactly the opposite of what you accuse-- I did not intend to explain away the mystery of God in order to appeal to an atheistic society, but rather, to highlight this mystery and place the biblical reader in a position of humility vis-a-vis a God who doesn't conform to our human expectations. I meant to stress the importance of receiving God's word on His terms, not strictly on our own, even as I acknowledge that we cannot separate ourselves completely from our own status as subjective receptacles. I had no intention of explaining away this passage as mere symbolic allegory.

However, in reference to Andre's initial response, I see no problem with a both/and reading the Bible as historical/figurative. I do see a problem in clinging to one or the other interpretation for exactly the reasons mentioned in my post. Grasping at complete, quantifiable knowledge of God and His revelation inadvertently places Him in the realm of our description- within the narrowness of our terminology- and He simply won't fit. Our feeble attempts to speak of Him should be in an effort to glorify Him in awe-filled wonder, not to define him in order to weigh the pros/cons and costs/benefits of worship. We receive the mystery in its fullness; we do damage to our experience and encounter if our primary approach is to de-mystify it.

Thanks!
Rozann
2/12/2012 1:32:46 PM
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Stephen
Rozann,

I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, but my primary argument is:did these events actually happen? Beyond that there are many interpretations. For example Moses is a prefigure of Christ just like most OT people. I simply think that treating the OT as myth is unacceptable because it sells God short as being a good story teller, rather than being a great miracle worker Who forms a story within reality. We can never understand the significance of everything within the Bible, but the events themselves are either real or story, and as for the books within the history section of the Bible and the prophets I think its safe to acknowledge that they are historical in their entirety. For as Jesus treated them all as historical characters. From there you can find many rich things about God. My best example are the works of St. Bede, he believed that the Bible was valid history and it was from that aspect that he tackled many verses finding deep meaning, on a format of roughly 1) the verse itself, 2) what it means directly, 3) what it means in the light of Christ, 4) what it means in the life of the Church. I think when it comes to Biblical history the patron saint of historians knows his stuff.

I fail to see how treating history as history limits biblical interpretation in anyway. If anything it shows that God directly plays within human history rather than being a bystander who sent a few stories along.
2/12/2012 2:45:39 PM
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Andre
“As for Pharaoh Merneptah, he is never referenced in the Bible so his "conquest" more like raids into Canaan can be placed before or after the Exodus it really doesn't matter, he is not an important figure.” –Stephen.

Well, actually yes, it does matter…it matters quite a bit (and in fact it was much more like a “conquest” than merely a raid). It is in fact so important and relevant to this discussion, and so illustrative of many of the problems associated with the historical accuracy of the biblical accounts, that I think it would be helpful to take a little time to go into it in just a little more detail. Thanks to modern archaeological research we now have access to certain historical facts, which the scribes who compiled the Biblical conquest stories in Judah during the reign of King Josiah in the 7th century BC, apparently did not have access too: we now know that during the 14th and 13th centuries BC, the land of Canaan was completely dominated by the influence and power of Egypt. The reason that these facts are so important is that this is the exact same time period during which the Bible claims the Israelites were pouring out of the Sinai, and, under the leadership of Joshua , were violently conquering and laying waste to the cities of Canaan.
What non-Biblical evidence do we have for such dramatic Israelite military invasion of Canaan?
Very little:
“Many of the sites mentioned in the biblical account and specifically noted as being destroyed by the invading Israelites have now been excavated by biblical archaeologists…most of the sites described as being destroyed do not show any archaeological evidence of destruction – and some, such as Jericho, were not even occupied at the time.” (- Eric Cline, "Biblical Archaeology; A Very Short Introduction")
On the other hand, the evidence for the Egyptian dominance of Canaan is overwhelming. If I may indulge in a rather long excerpt, the following is from a 2001 book by Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University, widely recognized as one of the world’s leading authorities on the history of ancient Israel and on biblical archaeology:
“There is an abundance of evidence from Egyptian texts of the Late Bronze Age (1550-1150BC) on affairs in Canaan, in the form of diplomatic letters, lists of conquered cities, scenes of sieges engraved upon the walls of temples in Egypt, annals of Egyptian kings, literary works, and hymns. …the almost four hundred Amarna letters, now scattered in museums around the world, include letters sent to Egypt by rulers of powerful states…most were sent from rulers of city-states in Canaan, who were vassals of Egypt during this period. The senders included the rulers of Canaanite cities that would later become famous in the Bible, such as Jerusalem, Shechem, Megiddo, Hazor, and Lachish. Most important, the Armana letters reveal that Canaan was an Egyptian province, closely controlled by Egyptian administration. The provincial capitol was located in Gaza, but Egyptian garrisons were stationed at key sites throughout the country, like Beth-shean south of the Sea of Galilee and at the port of Jaffa (today part of the city of Tel Aviv).
In the Bible, no Egyptians are reported outside the borders of Egypt and none are mentioned in any of the battles within Canaan. Yet contemporary texts and archaeological finds indicate that they managed and carefully watched over the affairs of the country. The princes of the Canaanite cities (described in the book of Joshua as powerful enemies) were, in actuality, pathetically weak. ..there were no city walls. The formidable Canaanite cities described in the conquest narrative were not protected by fortifications. The reason apparently was that with Egypt firmly in charge of security for the entire province, there was no need for massive defensive walls.
…Pharaoh Ramsees II (the father of our Pharaoh Merneptah), who ruled during most of the thirteenth century, was not likely to have slackened his military oversight over Canaan. He was a strong King, possibly the strongest of all Pharaohs, who was deeply interested in foreign affairs.
Other indications – both literary and archaeological – seem to show that in the thirteenth century BCE, the grip of Egypt on Canaan was stronger than ever. At times of reported unrest, the Egyptian army would cross the Sinai desert along the Mediterranean coast and march against rebel cities or troublesome people…the military route in northern Sinai was protected by series of forts and supplied with fresh water sources. After crossing the desert the Egyptian army could easily rout any rebel forces and impose it’s will on the local population.
Archaeology has uncovered dramatic evidence of the extent of Egyptian presence in Canaan itself. An Egyptian stronghold was excavated at the site of Beth-shean to the south of the Sea of Galilee in the 1920s. Its various structures and courtyards contained statues and inscribed hieroglyphic monuments from the days of Pahroah Seit I (1294-1279 BCE), Ramses II (1279-1213 BCE), and Ramses III (1184-1153 BCE). The ancient Canaanite city of Megiddo disclosed evidence for strong Egyptian influence as late as the days of Ramses VI, who ruled toward the end of the twelfth century BCE. This was long after the supposed conquest of Canaan by the Israelites.
It is highly unlikely that the Egyptian garrisons throughout the country would have remained on the sidelines as a group of refugees (from Egypt) wreaked havoc throughout the province of Canaan. And it is inconceivable that the destruction of so many loyal vassal cities by the invaders would have left absolutely no trace in the extensive records of the Egyptian empire. The only independent mention of the name Israel in this period – the victory stele of Merneptah – announces only that this otherwise obscure people, living in Canaan, had suffered a crushing defeat. Something clearly doesn’t add up when the biblical account, the archaeological evidence, and the Egyptian records are placed side by side.”
( Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman, "The Bible Unearthed; Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and The Origin of It’s Sacred Texts")
2/13/2012 7:39:05 PM
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Stephen
Andre,

I'll give you the point for that. Now I would like you to explain away the Transfiguration. You have only addressed one of my points, even after a moved away from it. Now deal with fiction and reality meshing.
2/14/2012 9:13:46 AM
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Stephen
I'll give you the point, now address my other arguments instead of focusing on this one. How is the fictional character Moses at the transfiguration?
2/14/2012 9:29:49 AM
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Phil
As an evangelical Protestant I would like to know which interpretation is more in line with Catholics, that of Stephen or Andre? I find Stephen agreeable, but if Andre represents Catholics it is only one more reason for me to never consider Catholicism a true Christian religion. Why would people obey a pope as infallible, but hate the Bible so much?
2/14/2012 9:44:32 AM
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Andre
“Now I would like you to explain away the Transfiguration.”
Oh really, is that all? Perhaps I had better begin with a small clarification; I have not the slightest interest (nor, thank God, the slightest ability) to explain “away” the Transfiguration! And even if I had any such foolish desire, I do not did think I would find much ammunition for launching such a misguided attack from anything that has transpired in any of our conversations above.
“How is the fictional character Moses at the transfiguration?”
This may seem like splitting hairs, but in point of fact, I do not believe that at any point have I made any definitive assertion that Moses was a fictional character (and if I have done so, and have forgotten that I did, then I misspoke). I may have implied that Moses was a “mythological” character, but by the deeper meaning of that term he is certainly that, irregardless of whatever else, in reality, he may or not be.
What I have claimed is that the recent knowledge we have gained from modern Biblical archaeology and historical studies gives us good reason to believe that many of the events described in the Hebrew Bible, and their claimed chronology, could not have literally transpired as they have been described.
So where does that leave us?
We do know that individuals and small groups of Semitic people have journeyed back and forth between Egypt and Canaan for millennia. Could one of them have been named Moses (or Joseph)? Of course (depending on how common those names were, there may have been at least many hundreds of Moses and Josephs traveling in and out of Egypt over the centuries). It is certainly conceivable that there could have been one particular Moses who possessed some unique set of characteristics (of leadership, spiritual insight, moral authority, etc) such that the memory of his name, and perhaps some of his deeds and travels, were retained through many centuries of oral tradition (likely accruing additional folk tale elaborations along the way) until at last, in the 7th century BC, his legend was appropriated by the temple scribes of Judah, in their largely fabricated revisionist histories (which were primarily designed to provide a sacred justification and legitimacy for their contemporaneous “First Temple” Kingdom).
Was this the Moses present at the Transfiguration? I have no idea. Maybe. Or maybe it wasn’t Moses at all, but an angel that the witnesses misinterpreted as Moses. Or perhaps what the witnesses “saw” wasn’t a literal historical Moses at all, but rather some kind of symbolic representation for everything that the character of Moses had come to represent in Second Temple Judaism. I suspect the true answer lies with the deeper point and theological meaning of the Transubstantiation itself, and thus with why Moses (and Elijah) were required to be present at that moment at all (which I suspect was for something far more important than just to “prove” that the OT was only to be interpreted as some kind of 100% infallible literal history).
Alas, at this key juncture of the quest, I must declare a great ignorance (miserable wretch that I am!)…however, a quick internet search reveals that my instincts may be not so far off the mark:
“… (the)presence of Elijah and Moses… indicates to the apostles that Jesus is the voice of God "par excellence", and instead of Elijah or Moses, he should be listened to, surpassing the laws of Moses by virtue of his filial relationship with God. 2 Peter 1:16-18, echoes the same message: at the Transfiguration God assigns to Jesus a special "honor and glory" and it is the turning point at which God exalts Jesus above all other powers in creation, and positions him as ruler and judge.”
2/14/2012 2:54:26 PM
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Father Steve
Stephen and Andre, I want to thank you for your lively posts and interesting perspectives. However, I am calling an end to your conversation. You have both made your respective cases and reached a limit in terms of your dialogue. I do not want charity and decorum to be compromised, and I fear that it will if your posts continue. Consider this to be the moment when the referee tells you both to go to your respective corners.
2/14/2012 3:15:35 PM
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Judith Painter
Thanks for this website.
3/16/2012 10:37:37 AM
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Father Robert BarronFather Robert Barron is a sought-after speaker on the spiritual life-from prestigious universities to YouTube to national conferences and private retreats. The prominent theologian and podcasting priest is one of the world's great and most innovative teachers of Catholicism. His global media ministry called Word On Fire has a simple but revolutionary mission - to evangelize the culture.

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