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Fr. Barron comments on Celebrating Bin Laden's Death?
I'm glad to hear you put this celebration into perspective, thanks. My question is, "how does one 'turn the other cheek' to a terrorist"? I ask that literally. What does it mean in the context of of terrorism, and how is it done?
5/7/2011 4:15:17 PM
Dear Father Barron,
The still small voice in my heart tells me you are directly on point...at this stage, however, I find myself unable to pray for OBL...but I am able to refrain from cursing him a blue streak...it's a start....
5/7/2011 4:27:02 PM
My understanding of Father Barron's point is this: Turning the other cheek is symbolic language for not acknowledging the evil that our enemies do. It means that we understand that their actions are to be judged by a supernatural order. It means we turn the other cheek, and say to our enemy you are defined by the evil you do, I do not accept your wrongdoing, I will still love you, I will not celebrate your sin or your death to goodness or the judgement that awaits you. Turning the other cheek does not mean that you do not bring the other to justice in this temporal world. And, as Father Barron and Pope explains, you do not celebrate that person's death and final judgement, and acknowledging that we too one day will die and be judged for sins.
5/7/2011 4:57:55 PM
My understanding of Father Barron's point is this: Turning the other cheek is symbolic language for not acknowledging the evil that our enemies do. It means that we understand that their actions are to be judged by a supernatural order. It means we turn the other cheek, and say to our enemy you not are defined by the evil you do, and my reaction is not governed by your actions, and I do not accept your wrongdoing. It also means that I will still love you, I will not celebrate your sin or celebrate your death to goodness or forget the judgement that awaits us both. Turning the other cheek does not mean that you do not bring the other to justice in this temporal world. And, as Father Barron and Pope Benedict explains, you do not celebrate that person's death and judgement, rather we should humbly acknowledge that we too one day will die and be judged for our sins.
5/7/2011 6:29:20 PM
When it comes to turning the cheek I'm not bad but when it involves others,I stink. I loved that they prayed over his body. "Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy".
He had to go, no doubt. It saved lives. But it was another life taken. Another act of violence.
A good "Shepherd Sunday" to you, Fr. Barron. I can't wait to see where you take us this Autumn.
5/7/2011 7:53:37 PM
i admire, respect and learn from you. that being said, if you think the military burying osb were in the state of mind/soul you propose, i disagree. i personally believe the military personnel were 'following orders' from their superiors, while probably condemning osb to the nether world! if a venomous snake is about to strike, dispatch and have no regrets! then thank the Lord you were able to do so. just my opinion; and i know the goodness of the Lord. let's get real.
5/7/2011 9:20:10 PM
Well said. I've been trying to capture this. As a chaplain in the armed forces people have been asking me how I feel about his death and many have been uncomfortable with the celebrations. Thank you for the clarification.
5/8/2011 12:12:12 AM
Superb commentary Father and so far a very honest and mature discussion. The priest at the Mass I attended today prayed for obl, which I was very impressed with. It moved me to a deeper compassion for all war mongers on the earth (obl, obama, cameron, al-Assad). But the priest also prayed for all those murdered in extra-judicial killings. The obl assassination was certainly illegal under international law, but the seals also murdered several unarmed innocent civilians (including a teenager and a woman) and injured others and we need to remember the innocent people who have been killed to in this affair. May they rest in peace.
5/8/2011 9:47:17 AM
Well said Fr. Baron. The only emotion I felt when I heard President Obama confirm that OBL was dead, was relief. An evil threat had been removed. I did not feel joy and could not rejoice with those who were celebrating the streets. The celiebrations , in my opinion, could not be compared to the WWII celebrations - OBL's death does not bring the end of the AlQueda movement, whereas VE & VD brought the end to the Nazis & Imperial Japan's regimes. Not the same.
OBL was assasinated - an evil removed. An assisantion order was given, not a Christian thing to do. The world is the beneficiary of this assasination order - we cannot rejoice, but need to pray for instigators and victims of evil.
5/9/2011 3:08:55 PM
I think what Father ought to be emphasizing is that we Americans do not become what Bin Laden was and that is a 'hate-filled' person. Yes we should love our enemies but also we do not want to become our enemies. I think back to the fight scene in Star Wars between Darth Vader and Luke. Vader says to Luke "yes, give yourself to the Dark Side. It’s the only way you can save your friends…”. Then the emperor steps in and says, “Your hate has made your powerful, now fulfill your destiny and take your father’s place at my side.” Luke looks at his hands which were about to kill Vader (his father) and said, “NEVER! I’ll never turn to the Dark Side!” Point being: We can never become our enemy. If we do, Satan wins. God bless!!
5/10/2011 5:28:21 AM
Thank you Fr. Barron,
These events and how we react to them demonstrate our humanity.
In the evil that was perpetuated by OBL we see the example of how darkness can invade and take hold of someone who doesn't know the freedom that love brings. He was a true slave to sin. As a result, he lived in an exile of his own making. By hating, he was not free. It is by loving and serving our fellow man that we are truly free.
This is why Christ calls us to love our neighbor. We have the responsibility by virtue of our Baptism to bring the light of Christ to the darkness of those who do not know him. In reflecting on our own reactions and examining how it is we love others, we begin to realize that this may be the most dificult thing that we can do.
Our Lord said to Cain, "Why are you so resentful and crestfallen? If you do well, you can hold up your head; but if not, sin is a demon lurking." GN 4:6
If we do not allow love and forgiveness to pour forth from our hearts, then it begins to fill with resentment and retribution. The darkness invades and hatred looms.
In our humanity we need to be mindful of the fact that it is only through the strength and peace of Christ that we can find the courage and ability to truly love our enemy. We must be nourished by the bread of life in the Most Holy Sacrament of the altar. We are Easter people who in our excitement want to lead all people to know the freedom of the love of God and the promise of Eternal Life.
Will we fail? Yes. Will some people never listen and continue to hate and persecute us? Sure.
Do we stop loving? Absolutely not!
5/10/2011 8:28:31 PM
michael jaffray king
I so needed to hear that. Thank God that Father Bob amplifies the voice of Pope Benedict so that the message of loving one's enemies can resonate around the world on Internet. I too prayed for him in that somehow God would mercifully help him to change and see his fanatical, horrifying and murderous mistakes.
The world so needs to hear this message of LOVE in its extreme form being encouraged by True Christians. God help us all to have this love and to deeply admire it when we see it like in the case of the Amish parents and many others.
5/11/2011 8:05:52 AM
michael jaffray king
Having made my post I have now read the other comments above. Maybe the opportunity to show this extreme form of love so identical to the love that the Jesus showed us all on the cross, may be upon us all sooner than later. The Early Christians flourished by putting into practise this amazing LOVE which only God can give when they were being tortured and butchered by the Roman Empire.
What makes you think that those amazing days will not soon be upon us?
5/11/2011 8:15:08 AM
I found myself unable to actually "celebrate" this event. I am relieved that we have completed another task of making the world a safer place. I guess reality for me was when I saw one of the sons of a national who worked at one of our embassys that was bombed weeping at the embassy monument for his lost mother. I am sure that prior to the death of Bin Laden he expected some relief from his suffering. He was clearly in despair. The suffering remains as does evil. I queston the loyalty of Pakistan, but cannot really believe that there is not some deeper story that allowed us to be successful in our mission. I pray for the protection of Pakistan and the conversion of Pakistan everyday.
5/12/2011 9:01:22 AM
michael jaffray king
I so enjoyed reading your comments...Nancy.. You are so right... We have to pray not only for Pakistan with its over 90 Nuclear warheads but for all Muslims..
I believe that our Holy Mother will be able to help here greatly. Like she did in 1968 in Zeitoum a Cairo suburb.
You can find out all about her amazing appearance over two years over a Coptic Church and preventing the murder of Christians earmarked for death by murder by the Muslim Brotherhood. No killings came about and instead Muslims and Christians received healings both physical and spiritual.
Yes!!! Lets pray for the Muslim world and the intervention of Our Holy Mother Mary!!!
5/12/2011 9:22:22 AM
Thankyou, Two wrongs do not make it right, and now that he,s dead as christians we pray and leave him to GOD
5/12/2011 4:30:04 PM
Michael, your first two comments were really beautiful highlighting for us that the Love of the followers of the way lead to their persecution by the Empire. However how can you agree with the despicable remarks that were made after yours. Those comments suggest that the US military is in someone way Christian and an instrument of God's work! The USA today is the same evil empire of Rome who crucified Our Lord. The logical of the Empire is the logic of violence and power, a submission to the Antichrist. Let us pray for the conversion of all US military personnel, like the conversion of the two Saints we celebrated yesterday, Sts. Nereus & Achilleus, they left the army because they knew obedience to God NEVER EVER involves killing. On the contrary it demands love and God's Love is non-violent. Let us pray for the conversion of all muslims and all americans.
5/13/2011 3:48:59 PM
michael jaffray king
Tomas, it's great to see that you are such a dedicated Roman Catholic. I have never seen in the Gospels where Jesus admonished the Roman Soldiers for being soldiers and doing their job of protecting the Roman Empire.
We need soldiers to do their unpleasant job of killing enemies of the state, however imperfect that state may be. We are to obey those that rule over us as long as what they tell us to, does not conflict with the agenda of our Supreme God and Lord. Jesus never corrected soldiers for their job, telling them to leave Caesar's army.
5/14/2011 12:51:50 AM
Tomas, if you are referring to my remarks you may have misunderstood them. I am being honest about my initial feelings of relief as Father was in his comments. "just that relief that comes when a terrible threat has been removed" This is a quote from Father Barron's comments. Bin Laden produced a lot of fear in the world...no nationalism was intended. You are to be commended for praying for the conversion of everyone. Blessed John Paul II would pray in front of a map of the world. His hand would move from place to place. I am sure the United States was included in this journey of prayer.
5/14/2011 8:27:45 AM
christine...you said get real...yet your belief about the military not volunteering to pray for Osama at his burial...is not real. The Military will not order someone to participate in a religious service or to pray for someone. Remember we have devout Muslims in the Force and also a few (very few) Muslim-chaplains. Also...military people can kill someone in the line of duty in an instant without a moment of doubt or hesitation..and in a nano second after...come to the full realization of all that Father Baron said about the deep truth of our personal connectivity in God with the person we just killed...irregardless of the evil and the duty to kill each other in combat. As Pope B-XVI said...in war, everyone loses...even the righteous and justified victor over evil.
Pax & Semper fi
5/14/2011 10:46:49 AM
I concur with Fr. Barron and prayed for OBL's soul.
Seeing those who were "rejoicing" at OBL's death, I contemplated: Let's say you had a severely infected limp and it was threatening the whole body and even your life and thus you "had to" cut it off. Yes, I would thanks God now threat to life is reduced, but on the other hand would you be happy and rejoice over your lost limp? Wouldn't you feel sorry on lost body part and wouldn't you hope if you had a way to save it?
I pray to God to have mercy on us human race and show us a way we could save every single soul, which we cannot do with our own will or power but only He can.
5/15/2011 2:57:14 AM
Thanks Fr. Barron. I believe we all had better reflect on the end of our own lives as well. Everything we do, say, and think, we should have our end in mind.
5/15/2011 10:29:13 PM
What a sensitive subject this is. Father Barron's comments are right on target. When I first found out about OBL'S death I had mixed emotions. Something I have since thought of is OBL's wives. It is my understanding that he had three wives that were being brought in for questioning. Because of his postion in his Country I would be comfortable saying these women had little or no say in OBL's acts of injustice, crimes and etc... Now what do I believe my responsiblity is in all of this? (Prayer)Especially for the conversion of OBL's family.
5/16/2011 7:22:06 PM
Mary De Voe
Man is not defined by his imperfections. Man is defined by his mercy
5/22/2011 9:06:57 AM
Bin Laden was a self-proclaimed terrorist and thus a wicked person, but there is no hard evidence that he was responsible for the 911 attacks.
He's been the US administration carefully chosen scapegoat for that fateful day, one that allowed the american industrial-military complex to pursue its oily agenda in the Middle East.
Dr. David Ray Griffin has done a very lucid and thorough job of exposing the myths regarding 911 from a christian perspective.
5/25/2011 9:56:32 PM
michael jaffray king
By Mercy and Truth, Iniquity is purged...Proverbs Ch 16 verse 6...
I think we are all great on Mercy but not quite so keen on TRUTH...
Dear Fabio, I do not know who you are but I would like to thank you for putting me in touch with D.R.Griffin. His you tube broadcasts are a must to watch and listen to.
Our world and our political system is not ruled and controlled by Christians and let alone Roman Catholic Christians of which I am one.
This is dangerous stuff and shows us that the world is ruled by wicked agents in whatever form they come...Right Wing... Left Wing...or Centre...
Thank God for Father Barron and the Catholicism project.
We desperately need such a World wide project to keep the world from completely collapsing under Satanic Power of Greed... Murder...Coveteosness...eclipsed by PRIDE...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCHN-1Yk5LI 9/11 David Ray Griffin Pentagon attack
Parts 1 and parts2... Must watch if you want TRUTH as well as MERCY
I have always been very very suspicious about this whole situation.
2001 Pearl Harbour!!
5/27/2011 2:16:53 AM
my pleasure. Who am I? Just a sinner from Brazil trying to be ever more aware of his own sins.
Thanks for the youtube links, I hadn’t watched those videos yet. I would also highly recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXw3jJ3021o&feature=related as a first step to the de-brainwashing process. The mainstream media is just doing a terrific job with the mob, imposing by sheer psychological force the “truth”.
Yesterday I watched Father Marron’s comments on the movie Apocalypto. Citing Rene Girard’s theory, Father Marron’s analysis was brilliant. However, finding out that he’s aware of Girard’s work, I couldn’t help but ask myself how he seems to be unable to see the bigger picture in events like 9/11, the Libyan war, and Bin Laden’s “killing” (there’s not even a body!).
Having said that, getting to know Father Marron (figuratively speaking) has been a blessing, and I’m learning a lot with his explanations and insights. By the way, I would love to hear his comments on the video which link I posted above (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXw3jJ3021o&feature=related).
5/27/2011 4:19:57 PM
Sorry, I wrote Father Marron instead of Barron.
5/27/2011 4:29:46 PM
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